thank you, your site is a really amazing resource!
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My portfolio’s extremely out of date and not online at the moment, but the three projects I had the most involvement in as an artist most recently that you can see are:

Daxter – http://www.readyatdawn.com/daxter.html (a great deal of the characters’ models and textures, and the bulk of the animated non-creature objects in the game)

NanoLegends – http://www.nanolegends.com/ (the player model and virtually all of the creature models)

Dungeon Runners – http://www.dungeonrunners.com/ (the Karl model, the Bling Gnome models, and a good chunk of the creature elemental variations)

I’m doing a lot of art at my new gig as well, but naturally that’s all under NDA at the moment. One of these days, I will update my portfolio, and post it here.

To speak to the revision subject more clearly, I’ve found that planning for revision time is a must, but to keep budgets predictable and smaller than the GDP of some of the smaller nations out there, you’ve got to have a maximum number. If you ever get to the uncomfortable point where you’re at the maximum level of revisions for an item, but the item is still not where it needs to be you have to make some tough decisions: get a new artist, contract for more time, cut the item… It’s a worst case scenario, but it’ll probably happen to you at least once.
The suggestion of small contracts to help establish good estimates and a better feel for how the artist will perform with regards to time, quality and style is an excellent one.

When I say two revisions, I’m talking about when they’ve gotten used to the technical constraints, working in my art style, working with my tools, etc, and we’re warmed up and in full production.

There are several conversations before this, and I factor in ramp-up time every time. I give the artist all of the documentation and knowledge and reference we have internally. I let him go over it, ask any questions he thinks are relevant, update the documentation if needed.

At that point we agree on a price, and then move forward with one small contract to see how it goes, and find out if it’s a fair workload for the price, and see if the documentation can be refined further based on questions he asks as he’s making the art.

At the end of the first small contract we’ll adjust the spec and the costs to be reasonable for both of us. If the initial bid he gave was too low for the amount of work I asked him to do, we’ll adjust the rates to a reasonable level for both of us and I’ll pay him the difference.

At that point, if we choose to keep working together, I start assembling a new contract. For the cost, I either reduce the amount of work involved to keep my own costs in line, or I pay him the adjusted rate we agreed on for the last batch of work.

At that point, he knows what kind of work he has to do, how long it takes him, and how much he’s getting paid for it. There will be a bit of additional ramping-up time on top of that, but generally, artists get faster and better as time moves on. When we’re full steam ahead in full production, as long as he and I are communicating well, there shouldn’t need to be any more than two revisions.

I’d never expect two revisions maximum right way. I could definitely have clarified that further. Thanks for pointing that out! :)

Somehow the artist is suppose to get it right in at least 2 tries, so I’m wondering what is being provided to the artist to accomplish this?

I’m really not sure what point you’re arguing here that I didn’t already address in my blog post or in the previous comment.

[quote] However, I keep hearing stories about non artist art directors making horrible mistakes and misleading the artist into doom. [/quote]

Yes, the entire point of this blog post was detailing the benefits of NOT treating artists that way. We’re actually in agreement on all of this. :) I feel like you’re arguing with me about something you read somewhere else.

[quote] So, I wouldn’t dismiss taking art classes entirely….[/quote]

Um, I didn’t.

[quote] Don’t get too indignant because they direct at Disney and Dreamworks. [/quote]

Uh, I’m not.

Honestly, dude, I’m really not sure what your point of contention is. Yeah, don’t treat artists badly. Art classes are great. Successful people in other industries can teach us a lot.

You’re reading some sort of weird aggression into what I’m saying, and you’re hearing things I never said and don’t believe. :P

Who do you really have a bone to pick with?

Well, thats called thumbnails and conceptualizing, working time for the artist to come up with ideas to meet the clientèle’s demand, not the final product.

It seems to me you’ve already made the thumbnails and concepts, the ideas, and you’re trying to find somebody to polish it off, making little room for error.

However, I keep hearing stories about non artist art directors making horrible mistakes and misleading the artist into doom. I know plenty of art directors that are artists themselves….draw, paint and conceptualize that can run rings around people of authority. So, I wouldn’t dismiss taking art classes entirely….since those kind of art directors are your competition.

Ever hear of Bill Perkins, Nathan Fawkes….there’s more. Don’t get too indignant because they direct at Disney and Dreamworks.

I also know of an art director from World of Warcraft whose taking art classes along side me…..makes you think.

[quote] Eh, you talk about working out and being a lean mean fighting machine, but hardly talk about the conceptual nature of ‘creating’.[/quote]

Why should I? That’s not the point of the article. In almost all circumstances, I don’t hire people to be “creative.” I hire them to follow my directions and create art assets. The vision, spec and detail all comes from me before we even talk. I NEVER contract an artist unless I’ve determined exactly what I want, illustrated it clearly, and can describe it at length. There is very little room for them to be “creative,” and their job is easier for it, and I’ve mitigated risk on my end by leaving as little as possible up to chance.

It’s also assumed that I vet the artists first and have hired someone that I have a reasonable expectation that can do the work I want, the way I want it, on time. Fundamentally, I’m paying them for a service, not to be creative.

[quote] Are you a manager or an artist? I refuse to accept managerial technocrats as artists. [/quote]

I’m both. I’ve been making game art for twelve years and working in the industry for eight. The last three have been as a manager, and I never forget where I came from. The entire point of this site is to bridge the gap between “managerial technocrats” and artists so they can understand each others’ priorities better and create more productive working relationships.

Managers need to remember that artists are people and not numbers. Artists need to remember that managers have a big picture view to worry about. And both of them need to remember that everyone’s ultimately working toward the same goal.

[quote] Work out less and take some art classes. You still haven’t reached your potential for illustration and conceptualizing. [/quote]

How lovely! Snide condescension from someone that knows nothing about me. :)

[quote] Ever look at the book: 300: The Art Of The Film [ILLUSTRATED]?

The concept art and the storyboards looked like arse, yet somehow the movie got done? [/quote]

The purpose of the storyboards may simply not have been to be pretty, but to illustrate the necessary technical ideas cleanly and simply enough to give someone else a jumping-off point to come in and make it pretty. If the storyboards are due tomorrow and the movie’s due to wrap in a month, the priority is getting them done and accomplishing what they’re supposed to so the next guy in the assembly line can do his job.

Remember, working professionally as an artist is about working toward a common goal and getting the job done. In this circumstance, looking pretty was probably not as much of a priority as delivering the storyboards to the film director, the directory of photography, the art director, and then onto their respective teams so they can create concept art, build the sets, rent studio space, scout for locations, etc.

Don’t forget that in the end it all still got done, and the storyboards looking like crap didn’t matter. :)

Thanks for the comment!